Traveller-digest      Sunday, October 10 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1183



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Jump Drive Question
Re: Parts Quest! ( was Re: Annic Nova (canon)) 
Re: Parts Quest! ( was Re: Annic Nova (canon)) 
Re: Parts Quest! ( was Re: Annic Nova (canon)) 
Re: Parts Quest! ( was Re: Annic Nova (canon))
Re: The elusive Feudal Technocracy
Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)
The Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse
Re: Jump Technology (was Re: Annic Nova)
Re: Feudal Technocracy
Starports in the 21C
Re: Hamlet in Space was: Re: falkenbergs legions firing intocivilians
Traveller Forms
Re: Feudal Technocracy
Re: Starports in the 21C
RE: Traveller Versions
RE: Traveller Versions
Re: Firing two guns at once

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:27:44 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Jump Drive Question

Nathan Yourchuck <yore@visi.com> writes:

>I am new to Traveller so please excuse this silly question.

Don't worry. There are very few silly questions...

>In Mileu 0 they talk about jump-drives limiting range, but I don't
>understand that. Can't cargo ships carry enough fuel to initiate
>plenty of extra jumps without needing to refuel at gas giants and stuff?

Jump Drives are rated by the number of parsecs (hexes on starmaps) they can
cross. The maximum jump drive in M0 is a Jump 3 drive (3 hexes).

Each parsec of performance requires 10% of the volume of the ships' hull in
jump fuel. This means to achieve a jump-3 a ship would need 30% hull space
for jump fuel, a jump-2 needs a J2 or better drive and 20% hull space for
fuel etc.

Bearing in mind that the maximum a ship could achieve (with internal tanks)
would be 90% hull volume for fuel, and that the remaining 10% needs to hold
the drives (jump/manuever), power plant, power plant fuel, life support,
quarters and cargo space this limits a ship to 9 parsecs range. In reality,
a viable (ie profitable) design would probably have, at most, 30% of hull
space for jump fuel.

So basically, ships can carry fuel for multiple jumps, but the economics of
doing so are prohibitive for cargo vessels. Even the top end Imperial TL15
M1100 ships only tended to have 40% of hull space for Jump fuel (one Jump
4).

Extra range may be gained by the use of drop tanks, but these are not
avialable in M0.

Cheers,

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:37:52 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Parts Quest! ( was Re: Annic Nova (canon)) 

 "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com> writes:
>But foolishly, ya gotta *trust* me on this one.  Eris is *FURRY*, not hairy.
>
>Hey, would I lie to you?  (btw, one of my *all-time* fave lines from 2010)


I can't remember "Eris is *FURRY*, not hairy." in 2010.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:49:19 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Parts Quest! ( was Re: Annic Nova (canon)) 

At 10:37 PM 10/10/99 +0100, you wrote:
> "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com> writes:
>>But foolishly, ya gotta *trust* me on this one.  Eris is *FURRY*,
not hairy.
>>
>>Hey, would I lie to you?  (btw, one of my *all-time* fave lines
from 2010)
>
>
>I can't remember "Eris is *FURRY*, not hairy." in 2010.

	*SPLORT* ...

	OK, folks, this is getting out of hand! The escalating attacks on
innocent keyboards has *got* to stop! No more keyboard assaults ...
Mickeyshit screwed up the one decent thing they produced, so my MS
Natural Keyboard is irreplaceable. Let's negotiate a Strategic TML
Wisecrack Reduction Treaty NOW! The madness must end!

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:12:08 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Parts Quest! ( was Re: Annic Nova (canon)) 

>  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com> writes:
> >But foolishly, ya gotta *trust* me on this one.  Eris is *FURRY*, not hairy.
> >
> >Hey, would I lie to you?  (btw, one of my *all-time* fave lines from 2010)
> 
> 
> I can't remember "Eris is *FURRY*, not hairy." in 2010.

Nononononono.

'Hey, would I lie to you?'

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 99 17:52:22 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Parts Quest! ( was Re: Annic Nova (canon))

On 10/10/99 at 10:37 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:

> "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com> writes: >But
>foolishly, ya gotta *trust* me on this one.  Eris is *FURRY*, not
>hairy. >
>>Hey, would I lie to you?  (btw, one of my *all-time* fave lines from 2010)

>I can't remember "Eris is *FURRY*, not hairy." in 2010.

You know, I've been good about ignoring this subject, but enough is
enough!  If you don't stop, it's going to turn into a canon debate...

"In the CT era, Eris was hairy, I tell you!", says Keven, "He had
hair down to there!"

"Well maybe, but I'm telling you that in the T4 ear he had *much*
less hair."  Dom huffs, "and because Milieu 0 comes thousands of
years before Milieu 1100 you can't say Eris is hairy!",

"You're both wrong!  After the Virus got through with him all he had
left as that fur cap, so by GNU he's furry!"  Dave insists.

Chris breaks in with "Yeah, but if you use the GT character
generation he could have *both*...."

"Hey, cut that out!  I've got plenty of hair and it's all mine,
too."  Eris growls angrily, "I paid for every damn bit of it!"

"These young whippersnappers...no respect for their elders."  Eris
grumbles as he wanders away, "Besides, what has that got to do with
my Parts?  Everything still *works*...usually."


Anonymous
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:24:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: The elusive Feudal Technocracy

> Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:18:31 -0400
> From: "Chris Peers" <peersce@mindspring.com>
> 
> I have read the definitions.  What does the TML have to say on it.  What is
> it?  Why does it come about?  How do the citizens live?  Interested to hear
> all answers.

Nooooooooo!  It is the time the prophets warned us of so long ago, when
the Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse would rage over the TML
simultaneiously!  Already we had "where does jump fuel go" and "what was
the best rules version".  Now the terrifying countenance of "what is a
feudal technocracy" blazes in the heavens.  Can it be long before "why
don't people fight wars with near-c rocks" emerges from the sea to
complete the prophecy and signal the doom of us all?

...but really, why *don't* they?  It's a lot more efficient than orbital
bombardment.  Of course, a lot depends on whether you assume HEPlaR or
t-plates...

<eg>

- -- 
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      "There it is; take it."  - William Mulholland

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 19:31:27 -0400
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)

>So the "poor bloody infantry" still has a chance. :-)
>
>Hmm. I just had a flashback on a *classic* system crossover article
>from the *early* days of RPGs...
>
>            Strumgeschutz and Sorcery
>                        or
>"How effective is a panzerfaust against a troll, Heinz?"
>
>In other words, D&D meets Tractics (for those who remember Tractics :-)

Reminiscent of a Buffy the Vampire Slayer [Yeah, yeah, I know ;)] scene
where the curvaceous blond meets the big bad ultra demon who says:
"Last time it took an entire army to defeat me."
To which she replies, "That was then, This is now," just before she fires a
LAW at him, which blows him to pieces.

ObTrav:(Yes there is something)If missiles are better anti-BD weapons than
FGMP's will BD troops have integrated missile launchers for use against
other BD troops?

Terry C

All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:51:42 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: The Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse

Craig Berry wrote:
> 
> > Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:18:31 -0400
> > From: "Chris Peers" <peersce@mindspring.com>
> >
> > I have read the definitions.  What does the TML have to say on it.  What is
> > it?  Why does it come about?  How do the citizens live?  Interested to hear
> > all answers.
> 
> Nooooooooo!  It is the time the prophets warned us of so long ago, when
> the Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse would rage over the TML
> simultaneiously!  Already we had "where does jump fuel go" and "what was
> the best rules version".  Now the terrifying countenance of "what is a
> feudal technocracy" blazes in the heavens.  Can it be long before "why
> don't people fight wars with near-c rocks" emerges from the sea to
> complete the prophecy and signal the doom of us all?

Now is the time of the Gathering, when the stroke of a key will unleash
a spray of Pepsi on the keyboard.  In the end, there can be only one....

I think it's about time that the Keeper of the FAQ repost the TML FAQ
URL, in a (probably futile) attempt to put out these flamewars, before
they consume us all.
> 
<<snip>>

- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 19:53:22 -0400
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Technology (was Re: Annic Nova)

>As I understand it, you need deuterium-rich hydrogen in order to create the
>energy to store in the capacitors for a jump.  Absorbing energy seems to be
>just another way to get it, albeit a much much slower way.  Skimming a gas
>giant I would think would take a fraction of the time sitting there waiting
>for the sunlight to charge your capacitors, thus making it a highly
>impractical method.

I inquired once before, but received no response: Can a Black Globe absorb
enough energy from sunlight at the 100 diameter limit to charge jump
capacitors thereby allowing a ship with a black globe to dispense with fuel
tankage?

Terry C

All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:04:12 -0700
From: "Justice Hypercleats" <eris@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Feudal Technocracy

Personally, I can see no good reason at all why the term "Feudal" should be
connected to the term "Technocracy" -- except to describe a very specific,
peculiar government -- certainly not a general concept.

Feudalism is a perfectly good general government type.  I imagine that there
are many worlds within the larger 3I structure that maintain the Lord-Vassal
relationship throughout: from the Emperor --> High Peerage --> Subsector
Nobility --> Lord of the individual planetary 'fief' --> Lords of the
'counties' on that world --> minor Lords of the 'estates' within the
counties --> Yeomanry --> to the peasant/serf.  If the IISS classified such
a government, "Feudalism" would be the perfect term.

As far as Technocracy, there can be several examples that have nothing
whatsoever to do with Feudalism.  If an elite group or guild of scientists
represent the top level of planetary government, they could be described as
an 'oligarchy', 'meritocracy', 'captive government', 'company' -- just about
anything, including 'religious dictatorship'.  Imagine a world populated by
low-tech human-types occupied by a spacefaring culture that decided to break
the "Star Trek" style "Prime Directive" -- they would not have to be very
numerous to take control, and to even be "worshiped" by the natives, if that
is what they wanted.  "Theocratic Technocracy", "Charismatic Technocracy",
"Technocratic Meritocracy", "Bureaucratic Technocracy", etc. are all valid
descriptions.  "Feudal Technocracy" is but a single, particular kind.

A 'Technocracy' could be similar to Robert A. Heinlein's description of
"Functionalism" as government -- that is, those who actually make the
society *work* are the only ones who should have a say as to the policies of
said society.  The technicians, the inventors, the scientists, those that
make useful applications from theory, and those that can 'operate' the
technology of a society.  In Heinlein's more well-known government type
(i.e., "Starship Troopers"), only those who have proven their dedication to
the wellbeing of the society (veterans, etc.) are allowed any vote or voice
concerning the policies of that government.  I would say that is more of a
"Meritocracy", myself -- though you can see how other CT 'Government Codes'
would apply.  More importantly, you can get more specific in describing an
'unconventional' government by mixing and matching those same Gov. Code
labels, as was done above.

IMTU, (and please, no heretic pogroms, this is just my little opinion), Marc
Miller's use of hexadecimal for the purpose of easily classifying a large
amount of data in a short sequence of numbers, (each single digit/character
representing one specific thing) is great as a gaming device (and really
helps in getting one started in the mindset of 'high-tech' digi-speak or
something like that) -- but it reminds me a lot of the Y2K bug...

There is, as everyone knows, plenty of data that would be useful for the
game and/or background that simply will not fit into a single hexadecimal
digit (or even an extended version of the LBB "0-F" as Marc had to do in
High Guard with USPs, and then everywhere else that needed more than 16
permutations.)  Now, IIRC, it is connonical to use 0-Z (excepting the
letters "I" and "O"), which yields 34 permutations for a single digit.  I
wish there were 34 Government Types listed and explained.  Same for just
about any CT classification.  But some things require even more than 34
levels/listed items/'factors' to accurately (even remotely) describe it.
IMTU, I have grown fond of using a separating character (like "-" or "/") to
separate *two* hexadecimal digits in a UxP code, affording more permutations
per item than I could realistically use (255?).  But I never run out of
numbers, even for long, detailed lists.  And the UxPs are perfectly legible,
if longer than usual.  I will sacrifice an extra line on paper for more
diversity and accuracy in information, especially for a planet.  (There is
so much that can be usefully classified about just an atmosphere besides
"Exotic" -- which is just asking for clarification.)

I know that many people prefer to use the LBB-style classifications as
general categories, and explain anything not obvious in text.  But "Feudal
Technocracy"?  That is not useful as a *basic* category.  It works fine
IMTU, because my UPP codes allow for enough diversity that I only have to
put it down in text once, then refer to it with a two-digit hex number.
Anything new can be appended to the main list and given it's own number.  It
would be difficult to run out of numbers, no matter what weirdness you may
come across.  It is this because of this designed limitation of the UPP
codes that there is only a small list of Government types, and the fact that
some worlds do not fit anywhere on that list.  It makes things a little too
fuzzy for my gears.

BTW: how would you classify a planetary government that was just a facade,
with a super-secret 'real' leadership?  Would you use the government de jour
type in the UPP, or the nature of the de facto leadership?  And how to
indicate such a multi-faced government in a UPP?  Certainly not
"Balkanized".


- -----------------------------
dlw
ICQ: 8139313

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:53:57 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Starports in the 21C

>I got in a little late on this one, but my bet is Singapore.

>2 degrees north of the equator, they are already a tourist and travel
>hub for all of Asia and the Pacific as well as connecting to Europe
>and the Americas.  They also have the money, commerce and work force
>to build such a thing.

The Japanese Anime show Macross Plus has a great shot of a commuter starship
leaving a port....sea port that is.

The people embark on the starship like a normal ship, then it clears the city ,
then lifts off clear of the population centre.

While some level of hydo is needed in order to do this, think of the benifits.

1. Starships and Seaships can share facilities.
2. Starports can be more user friendly (these facilities tend to be close to
city centres)
3. Starships do not land AT the port. The land in open sea then transit to
starport. No more falling starships blowing up your city.

So, using Singapore as a basis, It wouuld have most of the infrasturcture
allready for this.

Darryl

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 01:20:45 +0100
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Hamlet in Space was: Re: falkenbergs legions firing intocivilians

- -----Original Message-----
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: 09 October 1999 02:57
Subject: Re: Hamlet in Space was: Re: falkenbergs legions firing
intocivilians


>Chris Seamans wrote:
>>
><<snip header>>
>>
>> >> "The undiscover'd world, from whose bourn
>> >> No Traveller returns," >>
>> >>You mean "undiscovered country" don't you? ;)
>> >
>> >Not in space...
>>
>> In space no one can hear you quote Shakespeare.
>
>That's what laser comms are for.... ;-)
>
>~wondering how Shakespeare sounds in Vilani~


Shaakiispaari

>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
>



Matt

Matthew Bond      
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 19:31:43 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Traveller Forms

For the few of you that have requested, I just finished converting the
first of  two game forms to computer: the Character Generation Worksheet
and Character
Record Sheet (2-sided)

The following should be available online within the next several weeks
(if time permits):
Character Experience & Education Journal (Skills Advancement)
Character Equipment Journal (Weapons/Vehicles/Real Estate/)
Character Financial Journal (Monthly Income & Expenses Log)
Character Contact Record Sheet (2-sided)
World Record Sheet & Map (2-sided)
Starship Title & Registration (2-sided)
Starship Safety Inspection Checklist / Certificate of Spaceworthiness
(2-sided)
Starship Crew Manifest (Assignments & Salaries)
Starship Maintenance & Repair Journal
Trading Worksheet - Buying (2-sided)
Trading Worksheet - Selling (2-sided)

If you are interested in receiving these forms sent me a request and
I'll e-mail them to you in PDF format on a private channel. Please
provide me in return with any
useful suggestions or comments as I may eventually release them as
products. I provide permission for their private limited use while
retaining all design rights.

Alex Ingram
ingram@airmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:40:18 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Feudal Technocracy

On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:04:12 -0700, "Justice Hypercleats"
<eris@sierratel.com> wrote:

<SNIP>
>There is, as everyone knows, plenty of data that would be useful for the
>game and/or background that simply will not fit into a single hexadecimal
>digit (or even an extended version of the LBB "0-F" as Marc had to do in
>High Guard with USPs, and then everywhere else that needed more than 16
>permutations.)  Now, IIRC, it is connonical to use 0-Z (excepting the
>letters "I" and "O"), which yields 34 permutations for a single digit.  I
>wish there were 34 Government Types listed and explained.  
<SNIP>

In Challenge #26 page 25 there are 31 gov't types; however, this
includes gov't types for Aslan, K'kree, Hiver, and Droyne.


================================================================================
- - Pete                                                      j_pete@bellsouth.net

"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys,  all on different levels. The 
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys 
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
                                                     -Unknown
                                                     (If you know, tell me.)

Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V- PS-- 
PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
NOG #74   Nova 700

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:42:54 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Starports in the 21C

On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:53:57 +1000, dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au wrote:

>>I got in a little late on this one, but my bet is Singapore.
>
>>2 degrees north of the equator, they are already a tourist and travel
>>hub for all of Asia and the Pacific as well as connecting to Europe
>>and the Americas.  They also have the money, commerce and work force
>>to build such a thing.
>
>The Japanese Anime show Macross Plus has a great shot of a commuter starship
>leaving a port....sea port that is.
>
>The people embark on the starship like a normal ship, then it clears the city ,
>then lifts off clear of the population centre.
>
>While some level of hydo is needed in order to do this, think of the benifits.
>
>1. Starships and Seaships can share facilities.
>2. Starports can be more user friendly (these facilities tend to be close to
>city centres)
>3. Starships do not land AT the port. The land in open sea then transit to
>starport. No more falling starships blowing up your city.

4. Three quarters of the Earth's surface is available for emergency
landings.

>
>So, using Singapore as a basis, It wouuld have most of the infrasturcture
>allready for this.
>
>Darryl
>
>

================================================================================
- - Pete                                                      j_pete@bellsouth.net

"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys,  all on different levels. The 
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys 
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
                                                     -Unknown
                                                     (If you know, tell me.)

Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V- PS-- 
PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
NOG #74   Nova 700

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:07:53 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Traveller Versions

SD Mooney wrote:

>GURPS Basic doesn't have a task system in the same way that most
ex-TNE, MT
>and T4 users would understand. It *does* have the success roll for
>resolving task issues, but this has nothing to equate to the shifting
>difficulty levels that Traveller editions have.
>
>In all Traveller versions bar CT the prefered method of changing task
>difficulty was achived through shifting the task's *difficulty level*
>rather than the adding and subtracting of DMs to a dice roll or target
>number. The philosophy behind this was gone into depth by Joe Fugate at
one
>point in either the MTJ or the Traveller Digest.
>
>The result on this collection of (often differing) DMs for success
rolls is
>that most people new to GURPS from one of the task system based
Traveller
>editions perceive GURPS as having no task system.

This is the point I was trying to make, but much better worded.  But in
my experience "often" would be replaced with "always".  The group I am
gaming with now seems to be more consistant than the ones I have
previously gamed with.

>Fundamentally, GURPS is more akin to CT in its style. In the later BITS

>products we are putting a table in which equates the difficult levels
of
>the tasks to standard DMs for GT and CT. The system zeros at the
difficult
>level and has +/- 2 increments for CT (TN 8+) and +/-3 for GT (TN as
>usual).

Yet another reason to get BITS products.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:08:16 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Traveller Versions

David P. Summers wrote:

>Well, what has been anoying me is the round of snipping at GURPS
>by all those for whom it is some sort of heresy.  I wouldn't have any
>problem with posts saying they liked the rating of task difficulty
>in MT and stuff.  But instead we get this junk about GURPS "lacking"
>a "task system" and other junk trying to imply it has some sort of
>inadequate game mechanic.

My comments were not intended to be snipes at the game system.  They
were ment as statements of opinion and constructive criticism, I
appologize for any lack of tact in such statements.

In all the games I have been involved in, if there was not a well
defined task system, the game devolved into arguing about how tasks were
handled.

   Ex.
      GM:  That will be an electronics roll at minus 3.

      Player one:  We did the same thing 3 hours ago and you said that
it would be
               at minus 1.

      Player two:  And last week it was at minus one for a harder task.
How do you figure what the
               minuses will be.

We never got a CT game past the second session.  Part of the problem was
the limited number of gamers in the area, but I will not start a game
(as a GM) inwhich I do not understand the statistics behind the game or
have a defined task system. I have been burnt too many times.  The lack
of a task system is the reason I did not start playing GURPS in any form
or fashion until this summer.

>I really wonder if there isn't a faction out there that thinks
>they need to try and do their best to weaken/kill GT to "make
>space" for some other version of Traveller.

I have no intention to weaken/kill GT.  It is a very good source of
material to mine for other systems that I will run, the source books
(First In, Free Trader, etc.) are very good.  But due to the lack of a
task system I will not run GT, I will run MT or T4.  I will play in any
Traveller (any rules) in which the GM and players are compatible and
consistant.

If T5 does not come out then Traveller has lost a Game Master.  But NOT
a player.


Sword Worlder wrote:

>For all of my "Crusty" comments about various non-CT versions, I am
>actually very happy to see so much material available and such a
diverse >following. The fact that I have so far failed to catch on with
the GURPS >mechanics is nobody's fault but my own.  The quality of the
material is at least >as good as any other version and there seems to be
a balance between editorial
>prudence and perfectionism, which allows product to be published at a
fair
>rate.

I agree, even tho I will not run a GT game, I like the material that has
been put out and will continue to buy source books that I can mine for
the versions that I am willing to run.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:35:59 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once

Dear Folks -

Eris wrote:
>Here's what I do...AKUS players listen up...
>
>1.  The To Hit task for the weapon in the dominate hand (right hand
>unless you tell me different) is one level harder.
>
>2.  The To Hit task for the weapon in the off-hand is two levels
>harder.

I've been trying to meld the KBv2 task system ('cause I like how you get to
use your whole stat) into a combat system (CT/MT with T4 overtones), and
from this basis I agree that this rule is the best I've seen so far. It is
logical AND simple - and interestingly, BTW, is logically identical to how
good ol' AD&D handles the situation!!  ;-)

The only other modifiers I can see the player arguing for are:

     1.   Is my player ambidexterous? Suggestion: this reduces difficulty
to Normal (primary hand) and +1 level (secondary hand), and player probably
needs to roll 12 on 2D to be ambidexterous)
     2.   Can I specifically train for a skil level in two-weapon use?
(suggestion: reduces difficulty as per ambidexterous, taking a lot of the
character's time and money, of course ;-)

...and (suggestion) trained AND ambidexterous characters can use two
weapons with no penalties.

I mean, why not? Doesn't cause many more problems than allowing them to use
an SMG (a high-ROF, short range weapon), adds to the PC's
quirkiness/character, and the player is happy, thinking they have "got
away" with something! (just make sure it is costly to get trained in the
skill - and don't forget to charge them for all that practice ammo!!!
<...hundreds and hundreds of rounds...>  ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1183
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